An interview with Azhar Abidi, an Islamabad-based Shia scholar, discussing the systematic persecution of Pakistan’s Shia community.
Below you are provided with a rough transcription of the interview.
Q: Mr. Abidi you heard our guest there talking about the fact that this is going on but I am having a hard time understanding why our guest there would say that there is clash of an ideal school of thought between Sunni and Shias.
Why would that in particular as a reason..., would it be a reason for the Shia Muslims to be targeted in Pakistan?
Abidi: Yes, what I am able to understand from your question, as far as it is being mentioned about Shia killings in Pakistan, it is obvious that for the last 20 years or so one estimate indicates that there are about ... Muslims in Pakistan and about 10,000 to 15,000 Shias have been killed in Pakistan and these killings, I should say, are of all kinds, suicidal attacks, targeted killings, road blocks of the areas which are inhabited by the Shias and the convoy has been attacked. A number of convoys of Shias have been attacked which were going to Iran for sacred sightseeing.
So for the last 10 to 15 years, there were so much insecurity among the Shia community, in minorities it is general but particularly about the Shia sect. The Shia sect is feeling insecure and as I am mentioning that all kinds of threats, all kinds of killings and all kinds of terrorism is being done against Shias.
That is whether targeted killing of the doctors, engineers, targeted killings of the professionals and the targeted killings in the religious processions and then those areas where Shias are dominant, regarding their influence or regarding their numbers.
So the road has been blocked, many incidents have happened in which the roads were blocked and the buses have been stopped and the Shia people have been recognized and brutally killed there and similarly in Quetta there are 600,000 Hazara people living, all kinds of terrorism is being done, so there is a tremendous amount of insecurity and distress in the Shia population.
Now the question is that what are the law enforcement agencies doing and what are the government institutions and agencies that are responsible for the law [doing] in order and just to discover, just to find these outlaw organizations which are again and again and again and again attacking the Shias’ properties and the Shia people, not a single percent, not a single percent [of them], believe me, have been hanged or have been punished for these crimes of killing 10,000 to 15,000 Shia people...
Q: Let me jump in here. That is pretty amazing. Here you have up to 20,000 Shia Muslims being killed in your country, Pakistan, and you are saying that not one single prosecution is taking place for any party to be prosecuted for any of these killings?
You are saying that no one has been prosecuted for the killings of any of these Shia Muslims, that I am looking at figures of up to 20,000 over the past decades.
Abidi: If I understood your question, you are asking that there is no prosecution or no proper investigation is being done and the culprits are not being captured and put behind the bars and proper cases are not being pursued in a court of law?
So if this is your question, so I am positive about your question that this is not being done.
Judges are being threatened, the law enforcement agency personnel are being threatened and even have been killed, targeted killing of the law enforcement personnel and judges have been done.
So what I should say is that there is a will behind it, just [not] to prosecute those people and neither any significant effort is being done. So this is what I am saying that it is developing a distressing situation among the Shia population.
Pakistan is our country and I must say that the Shia people were among the leaders who have created Pakistan, even the one who gave the idea of Pakistan and the one who created Pakistan were among the Shia community.
So in this country the Shia people are seeing that not only they are being targeted, discrimination is being done, but they have not been properly taken care of, by the government and the ones who have influence in the society especially in the government, so it is a very distressing situation.
Q: Mr. Abidi I would like to ask you what is the story behind the Molana Ahmad Ludhianavi who leads the sectarian Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat, known as a hardline Sunni Muslim group ASWJ, and it is also seen as a front for Sipah e Sahabah Pakistan and this is a group that is banned by the Pakistani government, it is labeled as a terrorist organization, yet it has been able to lead this group and it has been responsible for murdering hundreds of Shia Muslims.
Now, why is this group, which is banned as a terrorist organization not prosecuted and let alone free to walk on the streets or to be part of rallies, etc.?
Abidi: Actually it is a very sad story and it is very unfortunate that the Sipah e Sahabah Pakistan, which now is known as Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat, they are always being an ally of Pakistan Muslim League N, which is now in government, but I am not saying that at the national level they are having alliance with them but on local level, just to win some or a few seats.
They have, in the past, aligned with this Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat and if you know..., I was listening to news yesterday that the one who has won the seats against Molana Ludhianavi, he has been... in the assembly now, unfortunately; and the court has given the decision that Mulla Ludhianavi will be now in the National Assembly due to reasons they have given.
So it is a very sad story and it is unfortunate that the organization which is responsible for killing of hundreds of the Shia Muslims and I would say that they are even responsible for Christian killings as well, that it is not being properly handled by the government and the law enforcement agencies only very sadly, I would say, to capture some National Assembly seats, some MPs and some votes.
I think that our agencies and our politicians should understand that these 20 percent of the entire population, the Shia people in the country, they should win over their hearts, their minds. They cannot be pushed to the Indian Sea, they will live in Pakistan, these ... people would be there in Pakistan. So why are they pushing this patriotic community to the wall?
I think that the country would not be run smoothly and efficiently until the Shia community which is very influential, which is very capable, very talented; until it is taken back on the track and until the community has been assured of their security, their integrity, I think that this country will be in chaos.
So I can only say that these are in the vested interest of the politicians and there are specific interested of the law enforcement agencies..., until they take care of them and do not turn a blind eye on them I think that there will be chaos in the country.
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