(Ahlul Bayt News Agency) - We have conducted an interview with Sabri Malek, spokesman for the Democratic Party of Libya, to further discuss the issue. The following is a transcription of the interview. Q: Welcome, Sabri Malek from the Democratic Party of Libya, to the show. First of all, what is the Democratic Party of Libya? Malek: The Democratic Party in Libya was established on the 14th of July last year. It was the first political party after the 17th of February Revolution. We stand for democracy, for human rights. Q: I believe all the parties are saying they’re for human rights. Malek: Yes, we agree with those who are for human rights. And I’m afraid things are going wrong for the Arab Spring in Egypt and in Tunisia. Q: Now, you’re contesting the June elections. You talk about human rights with the June elections legislation itself as being drawn up by the NTC which itself is criticized by three human rights groups, at least, as concerning Libya post-Gaddafi. How can you be sure that you’re contesting elections that are even part of a human rights agenda? Malek: We in the Democratic Party realize that it takes more than eight months to establish democracy in Libya. The constitution and declaration we have now-a-days was made by a Dr. Mahmoud Jibril. He’s no longer in the Libyan political scene. Dr. Mahmoud Jibril has no intention that Libya would become a democracy. The whole thing was drafted for averting democracy in Libya. Q: So, you’re criticizing a man who was pictured right next to the likes of the British Prime Minister, the French President, the US Secretary of State. Jibril was on all our TV screens as part of the new hope for Libya (sic). Malek: He used to be a minister of Gaddafi. He used to be in the revolutionary committees of Gaddafi…. Q: The Americans and British know that and they still stood next to him. Malek: Yeah. He represented the counter-revolution. Thank God he’s out of the scene now. We are dealing with the left-over. We have to get rid of what he designed for Libya. He wanted to put Libya on the road to disaster. We want Libya to become democratic. This is why the Democratic Party argues that we should go back to the United Nations for making the necessary constitutional amendments to the Libyan constitution, the old constitution so we can have a transitional constitution for two years that will see Libya go to democracy. Q: I’ll go onto the supranational bodies in a second. The NTC as it’s currently configured given that the UN don’t seem that interested in your pleas, certainly at the moment, they’re refusing to open the accounts books of the oil revenues at the moment at the NTC. What exactly is happening in post-Gaddafi Libya if even the membership list seems to be secret? Malek: Yes. This is really the problem. In Libya, now, we have a constitutional vacuum. Libya needs a judicial system; we don’t have a judicial system. Things are hindered by Mustafa Abdul Jalil who’s the head of the NTC… Q: He’s backed up by the British government. Malek: It doesn’t matter, he still takes his orders from Mahmood Jalil causing problems to Dr. Abdurrahim Al-Keib. The government cannot function as long as this man is still in power. Q: Do you think he’s hoodwinked the West or does the West know that they can somehow trust him in a different way, as it were? Malek: The West are not really sure what to do. Some parts of the West want democracy in Libya, others don’t. So the division in the West is not so clear about the Arab Spring. Some say in the West that the Arabs must not have democracy; there are others who want democracy in Libya. We are working with out friends who want democracy in Libya. Q: It was hardly reported, the recapture of Bani Walid by, well, it was reported in some wires as pro-Gaddafi forces, others are saying it wasn’t pro-Gaddafi forces, it was anti-NTC forces. Do you see Libya breaking up, as some have it? That Zlitan and Misrata should become separate states in this power vacuum that you described? Malek: No, Libya is not going to be broken up. Bani Walid supported Gaddafi for 42 years. They were the backbone of the Gaddafi regime. Mahmoud Jibril belonged to Bani Walid. And Abdul Hafiz Ghoga was the only man left on the NTC of this tribe of Bani Walid. He was made to resign and when he did, Bani Walid erupted because they still supported Gaddafi. They are the people who are the counter-revolution now in Libya. But thank God their power is waning by the day, and we will get rid of their influence so that the Libyan revolution can go forward. Q: Were you surprised as we began to hear about more fighting and greater and greater seeming separation within areas of Libya that NATO so quickly said we’re washing our hands of Libya? Malek: Theirs is no such thing as a separation or breakup. The Gaddafi regime was tribal. Q: OK, what about torture, what about revenge? It’s been documented. NATO are saying nothing. Malek: Gaddafi’s regime was tribal. The 17th of February revolution was anti-tribal. It was a nationalist democratic revolution. We still have the remnants of the old regime, of the Gaddafi regime, in the form of the influence of Bani Walid, the Warfala tribe. This Warfala tribe needs to be defeated militarily because they are rising up against the revolution. And they will be decisively defeated. When that is done, Libya would be on the road to democracy, and the government of Dr. Abdurrahim Al-Keib is doing the right things now. It’s taking us slowly but surely towards democracy. Q: Well, Washington and London like [Mustafa Abdul] Jalil and [Mahmoud] Jibril, so what do they think of your party? Malek: You have to ask them. As I said, there are some people in the West who like our vision of democracy for Libya and for the entire region. But there are others who, I’m afraid, who still live in the past and want the Arab Spring to come to an end with another dictatorship established. Q: Historically, Washington has ironically supported Islamist Salafis tribes, as it were, let alone in Afghanistan. But certainly one name that keeps being talked about is Abdel Hakim BelHaj who, I think, is suing the British government at the moment. Do you see Washington more supporting the Salafis Islamist parties as opposed to parties like yours or other parties that don’t subscribe to Salafis ideas? Malek: There is this view in America that Islamists would stop the influence of the Chinese in the African continent… Q: Even after 9/11? Malek: There is a pact between the [Muslim] Brotherhood and some Western agencies. They want them to rule in the Arab world. The Brotherhood do not stand for democracy. Q: Arguably, the Muslim Brotherhood would say that they are the only cohesive social services forces, as it were, in a land of dictatorship which is what I’m sure they would say. Don’t you feel a bit lonely? Malek: The future conflict in North Africa is between the Brotherhood and the Salafis. The Brotherhood are supported by the Americans and by the Qatari money. The Salafist are supported by the Saudi Arabians. We don’t want Libya to be dragged into this conflict. We have no interest in that. The problem is in Egypt mainly and we don’t want to import problems of Egypt into Libya as we did in 1969. We followed [Abdel] Nasser and you know what happened - we got Gaddafi and 42 years of dictatorship. We the Democratic Party want to ensure that Libya goes towards democracy and not towards fundamentalism. Q: Just give me your perspective on Qatar’s role. Were you surprised about the fact that Qatar was playing a role in your country? Malek: I’m not surprised. Q: It’s quite far away! Malek: Yes, but they have money and money has a long reach. I’m not surprised. The thing is that in the Arab Peninsula, they can live with the Brotherhood and they can live with the Salafis; but they can’t live with true democracy. Q: But aside from that, what sort of blowback would you expect for Qatar because, presumably, some people are saying this is quite a dangerous foreign policy, an expansionism foreign policy on the part of a dictatorship itself which hasn’t really involved itself at a distance before. Malek: You see, Al-Jazeera, for example, supported the Arab Spring but they have their own agenda. Their agenda is to dictate to us that the alternative to Gaddafi, Mubarak and Bin Ali should be the Brotherhood. We don’t want that. We want democracy. Q: And the Brotherhood, as I said, would say they are the only people who have services. Malek: They are not strong in Libya at all. Their membership in Libya is less than 200… Q: Ok, well let’s stick to Libya. Malek: But Al-Jazeera is making them as the only viable force to take over. This is nonsense. Q: Well, let’s stick to Libya then. There are thousands of weapons that are now in your country. And at the same time, you seem to be implying that Washington is leaning, if to one side then to the Salafis. Saudi Arabia certainly is. How can anyone stop the Salafis except other forces which tend to be religious forces in the country? Malek: Well, there’s going to be a conflict between the Salafis and the Brotherhood. Q: But you said there’s hardly any Brotherhood in Libya. Malek: In Libya, no, the Salafis are more powerful. Q: Well, let’s keep to Libya. Malek: They are more powerful, the Salafis, of course. But at the same time, the Libyan people are not Salafi. This is new to us. The Libyan people want a good economy, want good services. We want accountability. We want a modern state. Q: And what advice would you give to the mainstream media when it comes to, you’ve already criticized Al[Jazeera, when it comes to covering Libya because the National Transitional Council has said it doesn’t even have a press office. Do you think people would basically rely on TV stations like Al-Jazeera to give the Qatari viewpoint? Malek: Al-Jazeera has a lot of influence in Libya as it does all over the Arab world. But the Libyans are now becoming suspicious of Al-Jazeera because they can see that they are supporting Warfala, and they have a TV station for Warfala called the Libya Ahrar which broadcasts from Qatar. And the Libyans don’t like this at all. Q: I also have to ask about neighboring countries because the destabilization, and it has been seen by many around the world, it has to be said, as an imperialist war, NATO going in and then leaving immediately and putting in these figures that you described so critically, faces like “Marley”, “Nijher”. You’re describing a situation where there’s this kind of Salafism and thousands of weapons. What kind of impact do you think this is going to have on surrounding countries? Malek: Well, al-Qaeda is there in North Africa, of course. But their power is waning, I’m sure of that, because what we have in the Arab world is an intellectual war. Who wins the intellectual war will decide what happens in politics.
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