(AhlulBayt News Agency) - In an interview with Press TV, Syed Wasif, a professor of international law in Washington shares his thoughts on the Libyan protests. Below is a rush transcript of the interview.
Press TV: The latest word is that Muammar Gaddafi, with his family, is out of Libya. Is this a new beginning for Libya?
Wasif: Of course, it is going to be a beginning -- not just for Libya, but I think for the entire region, because the people of Libya have been a victim of brutal rule over the last almost five decades. They have been deprived of their social, political, economic and educational rights. They have been living in poverty despite the fact that Libya is one of the richest countries having its oil resources; but due to corruption, the people have been deprived of their rights.
Press TV: One important thing is the role of the United States. It has always said it prefers stability to democracy. If we want to go for stability, it is going to mean that Muammar Gaddafi is going to have to remain in power in Libya as far as the United States is concerned. What do you think?
Wasif: Unfortunately, we observe a double standard when it comes to implementing policies in different countries. The United States has different foreign policy standards vis-a-vis Europe; it has different standards vis-a-vis Africa, Asia and Latin America. So they have different standards. Of course, when it comes to stability, and when you compare stability and democracy, at times, the United States had its own interests when it tried to topple the regimes in the name of democracy and stability. At times, when it is in the United States' interest, it tries to back up and support the most tyrannical regimes in the name of stability, and deny democracy to its people. So in the case of Libya, I think the United States has lost both stability and democracy, because the people of Libya have now understood that Colonel Gaddafi was basically a stooge of the United States in that country, usurping and plundering the wealth of the people.
Press TV: Going back to unconfirmed reports that Gaddafi may have left Libya, do you not think it is a bit too early, since other dictators have resisted all the pressure by the demonstrators and (retained their) grip on power for a while?
Wasif: There are rumors about that, but still we do not have confirmed reports of his leaving the country. But the problem with Gaddafi is not just that the people are against him but some part of the bureaucracy, as well. Parts of the military have also turned against him. We are also seeing some parts of intelligence security agencies not cooperating that much with the government's apparatus, so I thinks there is a change in the entire structure of the government forces, who are now trying to be friendly with the people and protesters. So in that case, of course, I think that it is the final moment for Gaddafi to leave.
Press TV: How important a role have tribal leaders in Libya played in this massive protest against Gaddafi?
Wasif: This is a beautiful question of course. In Libya, just as is with the case in all Arab countries, tribes play an important role in day-to-day affairs and political and social affairs, and sometimes, in military and economic affairs, as well; same as the case with Libya. So I think although Gaddafi has some support of his tribe, there are other tribes which are against [him] and which are the ... majority of the protesters. So I think it is going to be difficult for him to carry along with these policies by his government anymore. It would be difficult now, because he has missed the boat for democracy and the people's support. He has lost all legitimacy at this moment.
Press TV: In the other two countries, Tunisia and Egypt, where the revolutions have borne fruit, the old regime has only been replaced by members of the old regime or by the military, up to this moment. What do you think is going to happen in Libya in post-Gaddafi rule?
Wasif: Again, this is a very pertinent question. The problem is with the awareness of the people. In all three cases (Tunisia, Egypt and Libya), it is basically a cosmetic change, not exactly a fundamental change. That is, it is a superficial change, not exactly a change in the system. What happened is the people there are being fooled by changing the personality of the president, and not the system. We see a change in the person, but not a change in the policy, or the system. It is still lingering on. The old systems in Tunisia, Egypt, and still in Libya, are all members of the same party with a difference that their leaders (Tunisia and Egypt) have left, but all the team is still lingering on with [the old anti-democracy policies of brutality.] So I think they are playing with the people's emotions there and they are fooling the people.
The unfortunate thing in all three countries is that there are spontaneous uprisings, [which] under political definitions, we cannot call revolutions. Because revolutions have a leader, a specific ideology, a specific agenda, and a specific course, or plan. We do not see that kind of plan, leader and ideology in all three countries. So that is why it is going to be difficult for the people to change the entire system in a jiffy. It is going to take a while, but the message [that should be given] to those people [is] that they should stick to their plans; to their demonstrations and the march and the protest. They should not, and must not, leave the venue of protest at any cost, and any moment. They should be there at all times until they see a fundamental change of the entire regime. None of the members of the old regime must be allowed to rule there.
Press TV: You briefly touched upon organization and leadership of revolution. In the event of a power vacuum in Libya, do you think these people, who have come out and hopefully, have toppled the regime, will be able to fill that void?
Wasif: Frankly speaking, unfortunately, I do not see such a prospect. I think it is going to be taken over by another adventurist military officer.
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