AhlulBayt News Agency (ABNA): On the occasion of the auspicious Eid al-Ghadir, ABNA News Agency has conducted interviews with some prominent figures, one of which is Professor Antonio Pellitteri, a full professor of the history of Islamic countries and Islamic studies at the Faculty of Humanities of the University of Palermo. His studies and research are especially related to modern and contemporary historical and social developments in the Islamic world, with a focus on Syria and Lebanon (nationalism in Syria-Lebanon area), and the Fatimid government in Sicily (10th and 11th centuries).
Among his responsibilities has been representing Italy in the Arab-speakers and Islamists section of the European Union (UEAI) and being a faculty member of the Italy-Libya University Foundation. He has also headed the scientific cooperation agreement between the Al-Mustafa (p.b.u.h) International University of Qom, Iran, and the University of Palermo, Italy.
Among his most recent works are “Introduction to the Study of Modern and Contemporary History of the Arab World” and “Sirah Al-Sham” (Tradition of the Levant).
The interview is as follows:
ABNA - We want to talk about Imam Ali (a.s.). How do you and other Western intellectuals, Italian professors, and orientalists view Imam Ali (a.s.)?
Prof. Pellitteri - First of all, I would like to thank you for this opportunity to talk about Ali (a.s.). Then, I must say that it is a good opportunity to explain the view of the Western world about this figure and to talk about the West and Italy’s understanding of Islam, Shia, AhlulBayt, and Ali (a.s.).
In Italy, there have been and are researchers of Islamic studies who have studied Shia. Among them, Professor Biancamaria Scarcia Amoretti, as well as Professor Alessandro Bausani, have had many studies and writings about Shia. But in these studies, Imam Ali (a.s.) is depicted with many contradictions. This means that from the historical and Islamic point of view, he is a very important figure. He was the caliph of the Muslims, and at the same time, he is considered the first Imam of the Shiites. With Ali (a.s.), the era of Imamate begins. In other words, he was the link connecting these two aspects of Islam, and naturally, this issue is of great importance. But there are contradictions in studying and knowing this great Islamic figure.
One of the great Italian orientalists is Leone Caetani, whose book “Almanacs of Islam” (Annali dell'Islam) is voluminous research on the history of Islam. This orientalist has dedicated a volume of his book to the early era of Islam, and especially Ali, the Caliph of the Muslims, as many Italian and European orientalists have done the same. He has focused a lot on the issue of “sedition” (the split of Islam into Shia and Sunni).
After the death of Uthman, when Ali (a.s.) became the caliph, in fact, the first division occurred in the Islamic world. This division is important, but it is not usually discussed from the historical and cultural point of view. There are very few studies that explain the cultural, political, and religious conditions of that particular historical period. The proof of this claim is that after the martyrdom of Ali (a.s.), Mu’awiyah came to power, which is the beginning of the imperial system in Islam; the system that Muslim historians referred to as “Mulk”. This means that the caliphate ended, and we see the start of the “Mulk” system. It is after this that the caliphate becomes hereditary in Islam. In this way, Ali’s martyrdom and the confrontation between Ali and Mu’awiyah are not just a matter of confrontation between two families, or presumably some misunderstandings, but a more important issue such as interpretation and looking at the future of the Islamic Ummah.
Another issue that is neglected in this regard is the previous history of the Arabs. Al-Suyuti, one of the Sunni scholars, wrote the book The History of the Caliphs. Lived in Egypt during the Mamluks era, he researched the caliphate of Ali. When he reaches the period of confrontation between Mu’awiyah and the Caliph (Ali), he states, “It was Mu’awiyah who started the war with Ali.” According to Al-Suyuti, after the Battle of Siffin, the importance of reaching an agreement was raised by Ali. In fact, from Suyuti’s point of view, Ali is portrayed as a wise character; a wise man who does not want division in the Islamic Ummah. This is very important, but nevertheless, those who study and write about Islam in the West do not consider these historical notes nor do they study these sources.
Again, according to Al-Suyuti, after Ali (a.s.), Imam Hassan (a.s.) and Imam Hussain (a.s.) were among the Rashidin Caliphs. I remind you that Al-Suyuti is Sunni. But when he writes about the rightful caliphs, he starts with Abu Bakr and ends this period with Imam Hussain (a.s.), and according to Al-Suyuti, the last caliph is Imam Hussain (a.s.). In a chapter in which he Speaks about the period of Mu’awiyah, Al-Suyuti writes about Hassan bin Ali and about the confrontation of this Imam with Mu’awiyah, and then he writes about Imam Hussain (a.s.). According to Al-Suyuti, after the Rashidin Caliphs, the Umayyads established the “Mulk” system, which, of course, is different from the Islamic view of government and governance.
There is a great interest in Western studies to portray the “warrior” characteristic of Ali (a.s.) and to write about his sword, Zulfiqar. For example, there are shrines in Damascus or in Homs called “Maqam of Ali” or “Maqam of Khalid Ibn Walid”, which have many pilgrims. But why do these places have so many pilgrims? Because these figures are referred to as warriors and the memory of their fighting is underlined. No one cares about the characteristics and rationality of these people. People love them because they were warriors and brave! But in my opinion, it is the character of Ali and his children that should be studied and understood according to the time of their lives and the conditions of the time, and their cultural and political perspective on the future of the Islamic Ummah should be explained.
ABNA - In knowing and introducing Imam Ali (AS), how should Nahj al-balagha be viewed?
Prof. Pellitteri - Nahj al-balagha is a very important book because a great intellectual effort has been made in its compilation, and the book and the text should be seen in this framework. In different parts of this work, Ali depicts the Islamic utopia. Such a utopia is not a society that triumphs with Mu’awiyah and is very different from it. The society that Ali (a.s.) depicts is full of wisdom and rationality. All this wisdom and rationality is somehow in conflict with the image of Ali (a.s.) depicted as a warrior, and it is neglected in the aforementioned research.
In the West and in Italy, the character of Ali (a.s.) is less known. While Imam Hussain (a.s.) is known more than Ali (a.s.). These are definitely two different characters, and the conditions and requirements of their time are different. In the case of Imam Hussain (a.s.), the elevation of the “martyrdom” concept is depicted, which is very popular with Christians. In the concepts of Christianity, martyrdom has been much considered and debated. Because the Roman Empire martyred many of the first Christians. In the events of the life of Imam Hussain (a.s.), the confrontation of the oppressor and the oppressed can be seen, which has been a favorite topic of the Christian West.
The West, Europe, and Italy do not know about Ali (a.s.) and do not discuss or talk about him. They don’t know this figure and if he is discussed, it is from the aspect of historical personality and the wars of Ali (a.s.) with Mu’awiyah and Khawarij.
In Italy, for example, several works of Taha Hussain, a famous Egyptian writer, have been translated. Taha Hossein has a very interesting book titled “Ali and his children.” Why has this book not been translated (into European languages) yet? Why has no European country translated this book? While it must be translated.
Prof. Pellitteri - Professor, why don’t experts in Europe try to know the character of Imam Ali (a.s.) through Nahj al-Balagha? This work presents a correct image of the character of the Imam. Is the reason why Western Islamic studies researchers do not use Nahj al-Balagha because the book is not available to them?
Prof. Pellitteri - In my opinion, there is little knowledge of Islam in Italy, Europe, and the West, little and even inappropriate knowledge. Although there are many faculties and chairs of Oriental and Islamic studies, etc., there is no good knowledge of Islam. Common people know little, and believing Christians also have little information. They even know little about their prophets and books. The prophet Abraham, who is the consensus of all three monotheistic religions, is little known among the faithful Christians themselves and is a character that is rarely talked about. While in Islam, he is very important, and he is called Khalilullah (Friend of Allah). His role is recognized as a symbol of unity among monotheistic religions, and he is a symbol of faith and monotheism. But in Christianity, prophets are not known much, and they are not discussed much.
As another example, I must say that the image of Prophet Joseph in the West and in Christianity has been degraded to the old wives’ tale related to the wife of the Egyptian prince (Zuleikha) a story about love, romance, and sin. This is while the image of Yusuf is very important and valuable in Islam. In Islam, not only the human dimensions of Yusuf’s story are considered, but also the part that confronts oppression is underlined. He is an oppressed person who fights against oppression. Unfortunately, Christianity rarely studies and discusses these aspects. In this way, Christians do not have a proper understanding of Christianity itself, and they do not have much information about prophecy, the role of prophets, etc. While they don’t even know their own religion, how much do you think they know about Islam? For this reason, Ali (a.s.) is also very little known in the West.
The West does not know Ali (a.s.). They only know that he was a good warrior, and he is depicted with a sword. But very few people have read Nahj al-Balagha. Generally, this book is not paid attention to. Why? Because in the West, there is no particular interest in knowing the other people, be it Muslim, Sunni, or Shiite. It doesn’t matter to them. Even many experts make glaring mistakes. For example, some Italian and Western professors write, “History of Sunni Islam”. In response, I ask them, “What does the history of Sunni Islam mean?! Islam is one, and there is no Sunni or Shiite Islam. Islam is like a stout tree with deep roots and many branches.”
The reason for these kinds of encounters is that the Italian and European reader is not supposed to understand the subject and know the events. In the West, they don’t want people to know about Islam and get to know its important figures. That’s why Ali (a.s.) is little known there, and that’s why that a passing reference is made to him, but Imam Hussain (a.s.) is talked about more. However, in the case of Imam Hussain (a.s.) also, issues such as Ta'zieh and the superficial and marginal aspects are more underlined. Just like dealing with the position, personality, and human character of Imam Ali (a.s.), the role of Imam Hussain (a.s.) is not considered, but rather the superficial and demonstrative aspects are considered.
ABNA - In beautiful words, Ahmad Ibn Hanbal about Imam Ali (a.s.) said, “No one can be compared to him.”
Prof. Pellitteri - Ali (a.s.) cannot be compared with anyone. Ali’s thoughts mostly focus on the destiny and future of the Islamic Ummah. He talks about wisdom and shows Muslims the way.
The Quran and the hadiths of the Prophet have their own status. But Nahj al-Balagha has its own place. We see comprehensiveness in this book. It is as if Ali (a.s.) wanted to make the use of the Quran and hadith comprehensive and show the way of their implementation in a better way through this book.
ABNA - Some Christian academics and intellectuals have written books about Imam Ali (a.s.). For example, George Jordac, from Beirut, Lebanon, has a book titled “Imam Ali, the call of human justice”. What features of Imam Ali’s personality attracted Christian writers, and made them write about the Imam?
Prof. Pellitteri - That’s true. But the example you mentioned is about a Lebanese historian. He was Christian, but Lebanese. Because Shiites live in this country, the sensitivity and attention to Imam Ali (a.s.) are different. Certainly, the attention given to Ali (a.s.) by Lebanese Christians is more than the attention given to the Imam in Italy or Europe, not only to Imam Ali (a.s.) but also to the AhlulBayt (a.s.) in general.
ABNA - Which aspect of Imam Ali’s personality was interesting to you?
Prof. Pellitteri - The Italian professor, Ms. Biancamaria Scarcia Amoretti stated, “Ali (a.s.) is the only person who can embody caliphate and Imamate as a whole concept.” Imamate is studied and discussed a lot. But what was Ali’s own thinking about Imamate? Both Sunnis and Shiites argue a lot about Imamate, and naturally, they have different opinions. But for me, it is very interesting to know what the opinion of Ali (a.s.) himself was. How does he, who is an Imam, become a caliph? I wish we could hear in his own words how these two aspects come together and how they can be collected. At that time, did he make such a distinction, and did he see a difference between the two? Or did he consider both to be the same role?
In this regard, for example, Muhammad al-Rashid al-Reza, a Muslim reformer of Lebanese descent who lived in Egypt, wrote a very beautiful book called “The Great Imamate”. He dedicated a part of his work to the character of Ali (a.s.). Being a Sunni Muslim, he puts these two roles of Ali (a.s.) together.
Western scholars argue that prophethood ends and Wilayah begins. That is, there is before and after. But according to Rashid Reza, “Ali (a.s.) is a man who belongs to both the past and the future. He is both the beginning and the end.”
ABNA - Justice is one of the personality aspects of Imam Ali (a.s.). According to a scholar, “Ali was killed at the altar because of the severity of his justice.” To crystalize peace in our world, to what extent do we need this aspect of Imam Ali’s (a.s.) personality?
Prof. Pellitteri - Justice is a fundamental and important issue and we need it very much. All Muslims, statesmen, lawyers, and religious scholars need this important issue. The character of Ali (a.s.) is important in terms of justice. After the battle of Siffin, the Khawarij left Imam Ali (a.s.), while saying, “The command rests with none but Allah.” In response, Ali (a.s.) said, “What is this opinion?” It is clear that Ali’s opinion about justice was different from what Khawarij believed in as justice. I believe that Ali’s view of justice was based on human beings and humanity. This is just one example of the kind of thinking we need so much today. We must restore justice to our communities because today this word has no meaning anymore.
ABNA - You have sufficient knowledge of the Immaculate Imams (a.s.) and Imam Mahdi (a.s.). In your opinion, how much does today’s world, which suffers from so much injustice, need such a character?
Prof. Pellitteri - In my opinion, order and justice in today’s world must be re-establishment. In any case, a large part of the faith community believes that the world needs a “Mahdi”, an Imam who restores order and justice. There is a lot of talk about this matter. Because it is a belief that has existed since ancient times, and mankind, throughout history, has always waited for a savior. But is the savior a person or a thought? When it is said that Imam Mahdi (a.s.) will establish justice and peace in the world, and will destroy injustice and corruption, is it more about him as a person or his thought?
A few years ago, when Ayatollah Muhammad Hussain Fadlallah was still alive, I met him in Lebanon. He was an important person, who was very dynamic in terms of thought and intellectuality. Among the topics we talked about were Imam Mahdi (a.s.) and the re-establishment of justice in the world. “The justice that will prevail in the world is not unique to one person. Rather, it referred to a broader concept: A thought that will bring all people together,” he argued in that meeting.
ABNA - If you want to introduce Imam Ali (a.s.) to someone, how and with what words will you do so?
Prof. Pellitteri - For me, Ali (a.s.) is a brave and very wise person who was very close to the Prophet (a.s.). To reach the position of the Prophet’s (p.b.u.h) successor, he did not seek conflict and strife. During the caliphate of Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthman, he behaved in such a way that the Islamic Ummah remained united. Because he did not want the Ummah to be divided. So, he was a wise, strong, charismatic, and wise person. This is how I know him.
ABNA - Thank you very much for giving us your valuable time.
Prof. Pellitteri - I am also grateful to you for giving me the opportunity to talk about Imam Ali (a.s.).
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